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Nigel

The modified/ aftermarket knuckle thread

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I have done a search on this forum and didnt come up with much so i thought id make a knuckle thread

 

People who have them or know about them please leave your feedback. Obviosly GPsports are the best as you have the option of correcting your roll center aswell but not too many people have the $1400 or so to splash on these.

 

GPSports_HyperKnuckle.jpg

 

GPSports_HyperKnuckleInstal.jpg

 

GPSports_HyperKnuckleLCA.jpg

 

GPSports_HyperKnuckleSteer.jpg

 

Then theres you modified stock knuckles, 326 power, MAX, 3up and many others that do the modification. At $700ish its still expensive.

 

1209176010_2_FT2084_p1030224.jpg

 

1209176010_2_FT2084_p1030221.jpg

 

DS20knuckle3.jpg

 

nakkuru.jpg

 

p1070702.jpg

 

p1070704.jpg

 

Does any Aussies do modified knuckles as a change over? It shouldnt cost a whole lot to make these.

 

Anybody played with different lengths and angles?

 

p1070777.jpg

 

p1080479.jpg

 

p1060898.jpg

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good idea to start this thread... i got myself some 326 power knuckles from streeter awhile back and have to say they are awesome... didnt give me a heap more lock... SFA really... but just made the car so much easier to drive.... was real snap happy :)

 

now im going to try put them on the 1VIA... not sure if they will fit though...

 

also im sure Japanese import spares in Adelaide sells the GP sports knuckles fro around 900 bucks :)

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Sweet, thats the feedback i was looking for, thanks squid :)

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By late 2012 we should have some pretty trick CNC machined billet 7075-T6 aluminium knuckles like seen below:

 

302759_434412123274377_1893160165_n.png

 

eaturing:

- spindle height raised 40mm's to correct roll center

- modular steering arm (choice between 4 steering arms at the time of ordering)

- adjustable steering arm to correct bump steer

- modular caliper mount with ABS provision (choice between 2 brackets at the time of ordering; standard and extended bracket to suit 4pot caliper with 324mm R33 GTR rotor

- S13 version is: 2.52kg which is a 24% reduction over standard

- S14/S15 version is: 2.63kg which is a 31% weight reduction over standard

- adjustable camber +/- 2.4 degrees

- mix and match when ordering. Ie. ability to order the knuckle with S14 spindle, with S14 ball joint insert but with S13 strut bolts (12mm Vs S14/S15 having 14mm)

- CAD files available to the general public for steering arm and caliper bracket development at a later date

Options include:

Spindle type

- S13 spindle for use with 4 stud hubs

- S14/S15 spindle for use with 5 stud hubs (perfect if you want to do a 5 stud conversion on your S13/180sx. Just buy a pair of 5 stud hubs and you're done)

 

Strut mount inserts

- S13 strut mounts (12mm holes)

- S14/S15 strut mounts (14mm holes)

 

Ball joint inserts

- S13 ball joint insert

- S14/S15 ball joint insert

 

Brake caliper mount

- Standard brake caliper mount

- 324mm brake caliper mount for use with 4 pot R32, Z32, S14 or S15 calipers using R33 GTR rotors

 

Steering arms

- Standard steering arms are exactly that, they're in the same position as the standard steering arms and are ideal for circuit/track racers or non drift cars that aren't after extreme steering angle

- Extreme steering arms feature; the fastest turninng/transitions of all 4 arms, gives the most inside wheel lock (+12 degrees over factory steering arm), has the most Ackermann effect of all the arms.

NOTE: offset steering rack extenders or steering rack relocation required (we sell offset steering rack extenders for $69 if ordered at the time you're ordering the knuckles)

- JP Special steering arms feature; similar turning speed to the standard steering arm, -4 degrees of lock (yes, slightly less steering lock from the arm itself), very linear response, even at extreme lock angles, - less Ackermann effect than standard or extreme steering arms

- Zero ackerman steering arms feature; - keeps the wheels pointing in the same direction at all steer angles (ie no Ackermann effect), similar turning speed to the extreme steering arm, +3 degrees of steering lock from inside wheel and +13 degrees of lock from outside wheel, less tendency for the tie rod on the inside wheel to overcentre, meaning no need for offset rack spacers or rack relocation, gives the most outside wheel lock (assuming it doesn’t hit the castor rod), reduces tyre scrubbing and avoids washing off speed mid-drift

 

Steering rack extenders

- Standard steering rack extenders offer an additional 19mm's of steering rack travel- Offset steering rack extenders offer extra steering rack travel and also move the pickup position forward allowing more steering angle. These are only required if you have moved your steering rack forward already or you're not after steering angle. The offset rack spacers are not recommended for cars that are used frequently. (ie. only for dedicated drift cars)

 

 

More images and description can be seen here: http://www.gktech.com/index.php/s-chassis-billet-aluminium-knuckles-introductory-price.html?SID=e0f98b362d20875a2ecbb0222b1fa657

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Would be incredibly easy to make up a jig and do these as a change over. Last thing i wana do is take business away from guys like streeter who import them though. Their would be safety concerns aswell :)

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i highly doubt anyone is still getting them as the dollar is so crap!!

 

we need mroe info on the Kuroi knuckles... with the huge steering spacer they use.... i hvae heard you can really get it wrong... but i got no idea!! streeter would be able to tell us about these?? :)

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streeter where are you..

 

as above dont know any guys in aus who are willing to modify them..

 

as there are big safety concerns around loads on modified knukles.

 

 

however none are insurmountable.

 

i want some gp sport hyper knukles but at 1200.00 i cant justify the expense.

 

alot of the aftermarket modified knuckles dont seem to really offer that much more lock... but it may be just the examples ive seen.

 

but yeah as above do it. i would love a set as long as you can work out some of the issues. !

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I have heard about the hey man knuckles being really good.

Hey man is Shinji's company. Maybe Dom can help there??

 

Also apparently the standard knucles arent cast, they are forged?

That should make them easier and stronger to weld.

 

I like the look of the 3UP ones atm.

 

This is just info i have found after the hours and hours of researching.

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I got some 326 power knuckles for my FC a while back now,...

 

They were pretty much the best thing i ever did to the car...

 

Amount of extra lock iI had was amazing... I was running 17x9 -7 wheels and it hit the inner guard massively on lock it had that much...

 

my knuckles

godsknuckles.preview.JPG

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the Parts Shop Max ones are aparantly the ducks nuts,

50deg lock in 1.25 turns, reduced ackerman angle

I want em..

 

they actually sell the parts as a kit to modify your knuckles ($250US off the top of my head?), but you need to get someone good to weld them up for you, as if it breaks... youll crash.

 

1231381587_2_FT0_p1040010s.jpg

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i think you will also find that i didnt have mine setup correct... i still recon they had heaps more lock in them.. i just didnt know how to set them up right...

 

this is full lock but i still think it should have a little bit more in it???

 

99500216_G1HItQfk.jpg

 

i just bolted mine in and put the stupidly crazy toe out back to normal... i think you are ment to put extra spacers in the rack to make up for the stupid toe out it gives once bolted up... not really sure.. :lol:

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It would be great to see some hey man knuckles? Hows this for incredible!!!!!

 

takurou_watanabe_knuckles_004.jpg

 

takurou_watanabe_knuckles_003.jpg

 

takurou_watanabe_knuckles_001.jpg

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the Parts Shop Max ones are aparantly the ducks nuts,

50deg lock in 1.25 turns, reduced ackerman angle

I want em..

 

they actually sell the parts as a kit to modify your knuckles ($250US off the top of my head?), but you need to get someone good to weld them up for you, as if it breaks... youll crash.

 

1231381587_2_FT0_p1040010s.jpg

 

Thats great, the best option so far, i especially love the locating pin so you cant get it wrong

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Powered by max seems like a viable option

 

They look the goods, do yourself a favour and have a look at their parts range, its comprehensive to say the least

 

1209176010_2_FT2084_p1030227.jpg

 

1209176010_2_FT2084_p1030236.jpg

 

1209755380_2_FT2084_angletest2.jpg

 

1231555094_2_FT2084_p1040030s.jpg

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yeap, im looking at a set of the max myself - cheap enough to try really ?

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Quote from parts shop MAX

Parts Shop MAX super angle steering knuckle project is a success!

 

We made some changes to improve the part.

We widened the space on one side to put a wrench in it and we still opted to cut down the 19mm wrench to get the bolt tightened but who cares about the appearance of our 19mm wrench...

We cut off the factory knuckle bump stop and straightened out the curved section of our part.

We also needed to make a custom bumpstop on the lower arm.

Here are pics of the finished part and installation.

I am really excited about this part, I think this is the most important part for drifting since diffs and coilovers.

Initial tests are flawless.

No interference in the wheel well on the more aggressive hole.

No noticeable heavyness in steering, but its a little quicker.

It's very intuative - you dont have to completely re-learn the car.

No steering lock / bumpsteer.

No problem resetting the toe.

Big improvement of roll center angle in tie rod.

BIG ANGLE!!

 

Then they went on to say

 

I had the opportunity to track test these things at Horse thief mile and balcony yesterday. I have to say this is like a whole new world for drifting. They are that good. While it doesn't take any time to get used to the knuckles on the street, It defenately takes at least 1 full day at the track to get confident with the new posibilities that are presented to you by having nearly infinite counter steer. At first I didn't really know what to do when I drifted past an angle I never drifted at before so my first reaction was to lift which made me spin so next I tried to mash the gas when I was in the new angle zone and it worked beautifully. Once I realy got used to it I noticed all kinds of things:

The input on the steering wheel at initiation is refreshingly reduced.

The old heavyness and reduced control at and around full lock is gone.

Its just as easy to countersteer at a maximum angle of attack as any other steering angle.

I have more control over the car when I'm not whipping my hands around the steering wheel like before.

A flick of the wrist pretty much covers most input reqirements on the track.

If you do spin around which is harder to do, the turning radius is so tight that you don't have to grab the e-brake to do a 180 to get going the right direction on a narrow course.

The reduced input actually works both ways so when you let go of the wheel to let it correct, it does not spin as much or as hard as before.

There is more control and precision coming out of a big fast drift on to a straight because you need to slowly unwind the counter steer when you lift the throttle a bit, and the reduced turns of the wheel allow you to do it with more grace.

When coming from a straight throwing the car sideways into turn you can be as aggressive as you want with the angle because the counter steer is there to back you up.

When you do hit the bump stop which is almost impossible now its more of a light tap then a WHAM like before.

Its almost impossible to hit the bumpstop and maintain a drift because when you actually hit the bumpstop now you are at such a ridiculous angle you are looking over your shoulder to see where you are going.

 

I'm not just creating hype, its really that good. This changes everything. I definitely recommend this part not just for you animal drifters but for beginners too because it just makes everything easier. I think grip racers will like this too.

 

Since this is so obviously a must have item, we'll get this into production ASAP.

 

One more thing, about the two holes, its easier to learn - a more understated change to use the first hole, but if you don't use the second hole you're missing out.

 

Sorry for the essay but heres what they have to respond to the question

 

If you dont mind me asking, what makes your brand of spindles better than the competitions, such as MA Motorsports?

 

 

I dont mind, thats a perfect question.

 

1. MAX is stronger because we dont actually cut the OEM casting. We box it in with a beefy one piece CNC machined add on part that is welded in three diferent places which makes the end result virtually crash proof as proven in formula D pro-am recently by Matt Powers. He broke nearly every component in the front corner of his car except the knuckle. MA is just an OEM knuckle whose arm has been cut and re-welded in a different spot.

 

2. MAX has adjustable steering quickness so you can actually choose how you want the steering to feel.

 

3. MAX has a new CNC machined reinforced adjustable bump stop rather than simply cutting off the OEM bump stop.

 

4. Judging from photos of our competitors hinge, Our CNC lower arm gusset is thicker because you cant dimple die the gauge of steel we use.

 

5. Parts shop MAX specializes in developing all sorts of parts for extremely low cars, so our knuckle has loads of bumpsteer correction due to the approximately 2 inch dropped mounting point in the CNC structure. MA appears to have dropped their mounting point about ~0.25". Take a look at how crazy your tie rod angle is, and how much the end needs to drop to be straight and you can be the judge.

 

6. We include tie rod angle spacers so that you can start enjoying more steering angle even if you still have OEM tie rods.

 

7. I dont think all companies who do knuckles address ackerman angle. The MAX Super angle kit gives you a carefully tested reduction in ackerman angle to give you the best balance between

A. Reduced drag at lock so that you dont just hit crazy angle momentarily but you can hold it longer down a straight section.

B. Reduced understeer in corners that results from the inside wheel turning more than the outside wheel This keeps your wheel from hitting the tension rod too.

 

8. When it comes to what you get for your hard earned cash we are giving you the best value of any brand because for $400 you are getting quite a few new machined parts and fabrication whereas with our US competition you spend the same but its going to fabrication only. As for the other Japanese brands, you can pay well over a thousand just for the knuckle without any lower arm solution which is essential because if you dont get the lower arm reinforced it will bend after you cut the OEM stop.

 

9. Orange is better than any other color. Just kidding, we can paint them any color you want = )

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the max gear looks the goods. i like the nice touch iof them offering to modify a 19mm for you :)

 

but yeah bring some in and offer to weld it up could be very viable

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More ramblings, this time from Drift Tengoku, wish the pic was bigger

 

This is a story of two brothers, who were inspired by watching WRC videos.

 

"this type of drift entry is usually called "ass end first", but I call it "rear explosion" or "unlimited angle". I thought this is the coolest thing to do in drifting. It's the feeling of throwing your car as fast as possible with a lot of angle, then floor it and not spin out. My brother and I 've been studying and searching this technic since october of 2007. my home circuit is Nikko, so we actually made our steering angle in favor of long left sweeper, 60 degrees of angle. people have asked me if "more angle the better?", and I think more angle is essential for those who seek this type of weird drifting experiences. "

 

As crazy as it sounds, these brothers have figured out the way to drive there lightly modified rear wheel drive Silvia to drift like one of those 4 wheel drive Rally cars.

These are some of the tricks that they have done to their cars.

 

Modified knuckles-> gives them quick steering to produce quick reaction. More angle. (use Ikea formula lower arms with no bump stop, the combination between mod knuckles and no bump stop gives them 60 degrees.)

 

F16x8, -1 offset with 205 neova. R17x9 255 Federal ss559. -> this tire size is cheap, (4 wheel slide makes your front tires wear out fast!)

also cut out the wheel well to gain more tire clearance at full lock.

 

Run a lot of front camber up front-> more contact surface at full lock.

 

Disconnect the rear sway bar.-> this makes your car not as slideier so you can throw it harder but gives you a little bit of understeer.

Disconnect both front and rear sway bars-> you can feel all 4 tire's motion. This also takes care the understeering issue.

 

They say that they make a lot of mistake and course-out a lot trying this entry but when they do get it, they say it feels amazing, as if you are in another dimension(possibly D-dimension lol) .

 

1229735967_2_FT3658_dt1_.jpg

1229735967_2_FT3658_dt2_.jpg

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So the Max goods look good.

 

But it also looks like you need lower control arms like the Ikea formula ones to use the knuckles correctly.

The Max ones offer to mod your ones but the Ikea's would be heaps better.

 

Also what knuckles are they modifying? S13 or S14/15?? There is a difference i believe.

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Max offer a full kit from what ive seen on some USA cars....

 

including a modifed LCA with spacers....

 

check out some of the other suspention goodies desighned for super low cars..... cool stuff...

 

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?5

 

 

kit on the wesite is for s13

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Its S14/S15 im pretty sure. Ive ran the Ikeya LCA and was not a fan. Rather than spending huge amounts of money on Ikeya LCAs its easier to mod your factory S14/S15 ones If you wanted to go all out just do a rose joint conversion on the stock LCA and shave off the lock stop and add an adjustable one like MAX have done. My self aligned bearing in the Ikeay failed and guess what its a 1 off bearing that you cant buy. Caused me a lot of hassle i didnt need. MAX knuckle mod and Modded LCA FTW

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so how much you going to charge for moddified s14lca with knukle delivered to me? :lol:

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pretty sure max drift are a company based in Shizuoka

 

http://www.poweredbymax.co.jp/index.html

 

so should be cheaper coming direct from japan than via US (if the parts are being made up here not america)

 

The knuckles are cast steel, from what Ive seen its not that hard to weld them and get decent strength (everyone seems to be doing it and Ive never seen any fail) and Japanese welders are some of the worst Ive ever seen! although the knuckle guys all seem to be proffessionals and not dodgey garages were you see so much of the bird poo style welds coming from.

 

The modification always seems to be a compromise of stability in the neutral section or great response and lock but a little twitchy in the straight ahead position. On the tracks and mountains I use max speed is only around 140kph as all the straights are so short so twitchy isnt a problem. On some of the Aus tracks with higher speeds it might be more of a concern though.

 

Alot of the knuckles arent for extra lock but for better feel on max lock, this makes the car easier to drive and as they havent screwed with the geometry much the car drives like normal (no extra twitchyness at all)

 

Some of the knuckles like Kuroi and GP Sports get extra lock by adding that large supernow spacer to the steering rack. bonus with this is that it gives extra lock (by more rack movement) so doesnt make the car that much more twitchy.

 

*the kuroi and gp sports knuckles are are about as far as you can go with out modding your chassis rails as you will get all kinds of clearance headaches if you go much further than that.

 

*The AUD is still pretty bad so I dont think anyone will be selling the GP Sports Hyper knuckles (RCA type) for $900, if they are buy 10 sets as that is a super steal and you could send them back to Japan and make alot of money LOL

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if anyone is super keen they speak english.....

 

stupid yen :(

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I thought Max was china parts. Thats what Ziptied said any way, some thing like "china parts sold in USA"

 

 

not sure about the us division. alot of places in the US use japanese names but the parts arent made in japan and sent to the US.

 

Apexi is a big one to do this I think parts are either made in US or nearby and badged Apexi. Possibly Max Drift is aswell? I dont know.

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